Curse

zelgadissan · May 27, 2009, 02:20 PM // 14:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by EPO Bot

That's what is for: "Major fracture detected. Morphine administered. Seek medical attention."

WTB Hazardous Environment Suit armor and a crowbar sword

Endure Pain is pointless, because you're either trying to be a bad Warrior and tank - at which point high HP means the AI is probably going to switch targets - or you're trying to be a good Warrior, which means your skill slots involve killing things (i.e. attacks and Frenzy) or catching up to things to kill them (i.e. Rush).

Eragon Zarroc · May 27, 2009, 02:26 PM // 14:26

if monsters are able to spike all of a warriors health through healers, a little extra won't make much of a difference. and then there is of course the fact that it doesn't last long, so when it drops, u risk the possibilty of death. an armor increasing skill or blocking stance is a much better substitute, skills that prevent dmg.

MarkusParkus · May 27, 2009, 02:43 PM // 14:43

I Use Endure Pain In Running Builds... Means Your Clear Of The Enemy Before It Drops!

But Have On The Rare Occasion Used...
Endure Pain/Defy Pain/I Will Survive/Watch Youself/Mending For Tanking Builds
And Seen It Work Quite Well Just 2 Add The Last Bitt Of Health Till Your Monk Can Slap A WoH On You

Markus.

Kanji · May 27, 2009, 03:33 PM // 15:33

Well, I use endure pain when running.. as it keeps my HP up while the mobs are attacking me, then once in a safe spot, heal. It's more useful than you make it out to be.. I have used it in other places, not really where I should have, but it works.. It's a temporary thing.. you have no healer around, and lions comfort isn't good if you don't have an adrenaline maker skill. Therefore you use EP to get you out of a sticky situation.

Yes, it is a c--- skill in the end.. but I still believe it's useful if you know how to use it. Like any skill. It doesn't matter how people think it's a bad skill... as long as you can use it effectively. And that's why ANet nerfs skills.. They want it to be fair, and they don't want Guild Wars to become a "go out and grind" mmo. They want people to think things through, not just go and kill things with everything you have

PahaLukki · May 27, 2009, 08:21 PM // 20:21

You must be doing something wrong if your bar has defy pain + lions comfort and you can't think of 6 other non-elite warrior skills to kill. Hint: with defy pain you should have 16 strength and 13 in your weapon attr..

legacyofkain85 · May 27, 2009, 08:56 PM // 20:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

You must be doing something wrong if your bar has defy pain + lions comfort and you can't think of 6 other non-elite warrior skills to kill. Hint: with defy pain you should have 16 strength and 13 in your weapon attr..

Tbh imo 28 health and 2 dmg reduction isn't worth -75 hp from a superior strength rune,14 strength is quite enough.

Reverend Dr · May 27, 2009, 08:59 PM // 20:59

I miss the old meta when endure pain was common on hammer warriors. Good times.

Lishy · May 27, 2009, 09:02 PM // 21:02

You know, I wonder what things would be like if Defy Pain was adrenaline based and buffed...
Would be kind of cool for farming, a matter of fact. Though it'd still not be good in general pve..

_Nihilist_ · May 27, 2009, 10:04 PM // 22:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kain Fz

You know, I wonder what things would be like if Defy Pain was adrenaline based and buffed...

Defy Pain (the Elite) is Adrenaline based (6A) and has been buffed (to include damage reduction - happened a few updates ago), it's also capable to chain it so that it stays up all the time as long as you can gain Adrenaline.

Endure Pain (the non-Elite) is Energy based (5e) and cannot be indefinitely chained.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

Hint: with defy pain you should have 16 strength and 13 in your weapon attr..

16 Strength is bad, 14 Strength is good.

Lishy · May 27, 2009, 10:15 PM // 22:15

Sorry, I mean't endure pain before.
Endure Pain just sucks so much that I totally forgot its existence over defy pain.

Expherious · May 27, 2009, 10:21 PM // 22:21

If you have a brain Endure Pain is an extremely useful and powerful skill.

**Marty Silverblade** · May 28, 2009, 06:18 AM // 06:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Expherious

If you have a brain Endure Pain is an extremely useful and powerful skill.

Care to explain? People with brains know it's the Wars job to blow stuff up, and the Monks job to keep you alive. If you need EP, either you or your monk suck. That doesn't justify EP.

PahaLukki · May 28, 2009, 07:03 AM // 07:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by legacyofkain85

Tbh imo 28 health and 2 dmg reduction isn't worth -75 hp from a superior strength rune,14 strength is quite enough.

Strength increases the damage you output and the health you generate through adrenaline, through skills such as body blow and lions comfort, but you also get the passive 2% increase in armor penetration. (Imagine mesmers running around in 50.4 AL armor, ooh that's gotta hurt!). After all, what is max health if you cannot stay in balance with incoming damage and healing. And the less you have damage reduction, the less are the invested points of HP injected to you by a monk (or by lions) worth in the battle. This, however, only applies when dealing with non-armor-ignoring damage. Really a defy painist takes so little damage a blood necro could probably keep it up by using blood bond, foul feast and expel hexes. Because only blindness, poison and hex stacking work properly against flailing defy painist with 136 armor and -16 DR.

reaper with no name · May 28, 2009, 07:57 AM // 07:57

Endure Pain is a self-inflicted spike. It doesn't actually give you any more HP; it just borrows some and then has to pay it back later. Much like switching from a melee weapon to a staff doesn't actually give you more energy; you just get an energy deficit.

qvtkc · May 28, 2009, 01:42 PM // 13:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

you also get the passive 2% increase in armor penetration. (Imagine mesmers running around in 50.4 AL armor, ooh that's gotta hurt!).

Them mesmers only run around in 50.4 AL armor when you use attack skills. And 50.4 isn't that much different from 51.6.

The extra 2 damage reduction will catch up on the health loss after getting hit 24 times. Just mentioning that.

Lux Aeterna · May 28, 2009, 05:31 PM // 17:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

Especially now that WE is nerfed unusable, defy pain is a good alternative for PvP,

Defy pain is not good for pvp - especially as an alternative to WE, and anyway WE wasn't that great.

although I'm tempted to try the defy pain shock axe.

Naphtali · May 28, 2009, 05:52 PM // 17:52

I agree what most of you said about Endure Pain, it will only delay the inevitable and end up being the cause of your death.

And I just have to respond to this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by PahaLukki

Strength increases the damage you output and the health you generate through adrenaline, through skills such as body blow and lions comfort, but you also get the passive 2% increase in armor penetration. (Imagine mesmers running around in 50.4 AL armor, ooh that's gotta hurt!). After all, what is max health if you cannot stay in balance with incoming damage and healing. And the less you have damage reduction, the less are the invested points of HP injected to you by a monk (or by lions) worth in the battle. This, however, only applies when dealing with non-armor-ignoring damage. Really a defy painist takes so little damage a blood necro could probably keep it up by using blood bond, foul feast and expel hexes. Because only blindness, poison and hex stacking work properly against flailing defy painist with 136 armor and -16 DR.

First a question. Where did you get the 16 damage reduction from?

And here are a few facts:
I'm going to assume you're using an axe as a Defy Pain tank.
13 Axe Mastery, 16 Strength against AR 60
67 dmg on a crit

13 Axe Mastery, 14 Strength against AR 60
66 dmg on a crit

And for the hell of it.
14 Axe Mastery, 13 Strength against AR 60
67 dmg on a crit

As previously mentioned, the armor penetration from Strength will only trigger when using attack skills, not regular attacks.

The difference between Lion's comfort at 13 and 16 Strength is 12 points of healing, no difference in adrenaline gain. Using it on recharge to gain adreanline is advised, the healing is merely a bonus.

Defy Pain at 16 reduces damage by 11.
Ask your monk to bring Shield of Absorption, the damage reduction from that skill is insane and enables you to use an elite that is actually useful without really sacrificing anything.

Do what you want with this information, I just hope it will make you into a better player.

Neo Atomisk · May 28, 2009, 06:08 PM // 18:08

tbh the only place id ever use defy pain is:
1) running MQSC on my war
2) raptor farming so i can pick up loot.

imnotyourmother · May 28, 2009, 06:25 PM // 18:25

Lets face it. The War skills bar suck no matter how you look at it.

I use the Endure Pain as an "end of sequence" skill. If I have them almost dead then I use it. I will take the Lion's comfort to give me 120+ health every 4 second or so while I try and degen them with Mark of Rodgort or Bleeding. Throw in some assassin support with a bit of the DSignet and I can last a while.

I have a pvp build that I use in AB that will allow me to fend off up to 6 foes at a time. I will use the Necro elite Life Transfer and the endure pain with Lions comfort, troll ungent and HSig with Sliver armor to last at least 60-70 seconds of constant spikes and abuse.

This will let my team cap the shrines while the foes try and bring me to my knees. By the time they do, we will have capped 3 shrines and be well on the way to the victory.

So EP just before you are going to die will provide some extra seconds to be spike healed. I normally ping my health just before I EP runs out. Or just tell the monk on Vent to get ready to hit me with WoH in 5, 4, 3, 2, NOW!

MisterB · May 28, 2009, 06:52 PM // 18:52

So Endure Pain can be “good” in AB if you have 4 professions and the following build?

Life Transfer
Endure Pain
Lion's Comfort
Troll Unguent
Healing Signet
Sliver Armor
Mark of Rodgort
Sever Artery/Barbarous Slash

Stop trying to tank, especially in PVP.